[rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Michael Chastain]

This looks like NEWS to me.

Daniel, did I get the details right?

Eli, is this okay?

===

2004-10-17  Michael Chastain  <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>

	* NEWS: GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

Index: NEWS
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/src/src/gdb/NEWS,v
retrieving revision 1.161
diff -c -3 -p -r1.161 NEWS
*** NEWS	12 Aug 2004 21:44:19 -0000	1.161
--- NEWS	17 Oct 2004 18:07:34 -0000
***************
*** 1,7 ****
  		What has changed in GDB?
  	     (Organized release by release)
  
! *** Changes since GDB 6.2:
  
  *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
  
--- 1,12 ----
  		What has changed in GDB?
  	     (Organized release by release)
  
! *** Changes since GDB 6.2.1:
! 
! * GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
! 
! GDB now works with programs compiled with -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.
! You must use GCC 3.3.4 or later to use this option.
  
  *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
  

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 02:12:04PM -0400, Michael Chastain wrote:
> This looks like NEWS to me.
> 
> Daniel, did I get the details right?

Sort of... I'd say:

 GDB now supports a more compact representation of DWARF-2 debug
 information using DW_FORM_ref_addr references.  These are produced by
 some commercial compilers, and by GCC's -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
 option.  You must use GCC 3.3.4 or later to use this option.

How's that?

> 
> Eli, is this okay?
> 
> ===
> 
> 2004-10-17  Michael Chastain  <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>
> 
> 	* NEWS: GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.
> 
> Index: NEWS
> ===================================================================
> RCS file: /cvs/src/src/gdb/NEWS,v
> retrieving revision 1.161
> diff -c -3 -p -r1.161 NEWS
> *** NEWS	12 Aug 2004 21:44:19 -0000	1.161
> --- NEWS	17 Oct 2004 18:07:34 -0000
> ***************
> *** 1,7 ****
>   		What has changed in GDB?
>   	     (Organized release by release)
>   
> ! *** Changes since GDB 6.2:
>   
>   *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
>   
> --- 1,12 ----
>   		What has changed in GDB?
>   	     (Organized release by release)
>   
> ! *** Changes since GDB 6.2.1:
> ! 
> ! * GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
> ! 
> ! GDB now works with programs compiled with -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.
> ! You must use GCC 3.3.4 or later to use this option.
>   
>   *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
>   
> 

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Michael Chastain]

I want to re-arrange this a little so that GCC comes before
commercial compilers.  How's this?

2004-10-17  Michael Chastain  <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>

	* NEWS: GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

Index: NEWS
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/src/src/gdb/NEWS,v
retrieving revision 1.161
diff -c -3 -p -r1.161 NEWS
*** NEWS	12 Aug 2004 21:44:19 -0000	1.161
--- NEWS	17 Oct 2004 18:50:34 -0000
***************
*** 1,7 ****
  		What has changed in GDB?
  	     (Organized release by release)
  
! *** Changes since GDB 6.2:
  
  *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
  
--- 1,15 ----
  		What has changed in GDB?
  	     (Organized release by release)
  
! *** Changes since GDB 6.2.1:
! 
! * GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
! 
! GDB now supports a more compact representation of DWARF-2 debug
! information using DW_FORM_ref_addr references.  These are produced
! by GCC with the option -feliminate-dwarf2-dups and also by some
! commercial compilers.  With GCC, you must use GCC 3.3.4 or later
! to use this option.
  
  *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
  

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 02:52:36PM -0400, Michael Chastain wrote:
> I want to re-arrange this a little so that GCC comes before
> commercial compilers.  How's this?

How about replacing the last "this option" with
"-feliminate-dwarf2-dups"?  Otherwise, looks fine to me.


-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:12:04 -0400
> From: Michael Chastain <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>
> Cc: gdb-patches@sources.redhat.com
> 
> Eli, is this okay?

Yes.  Thanks.

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:31:44 -0400
> From: Daniel Jacobowitz <dan@debian.org>
> Cc: eliz@gnu.org, gdb-patches@sources.redhat.com
> 
>  GDB now supports a more compact representation of DWARF-2 debug
>  information using DW_FORM_ref_addr references.  These are produced by
>  some commercial compilers, and by GCC's -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
>  option.  You must use GCC 3.3.4 or later to use this option.
> 
> How's that?

I liked Michael's original version better: it is more user-oriented.

If it is important to mention technicalities like DW_FORM_ref_addr,
then I think they should come _after_ Michael's user-oriented
description.

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Michael Chastain]

Here's a version with the last "this option" replaced by
"-feliminate-dwarf2-dups".  I like it this way too.

Eli, I like this better than my original wording because gdb does
not actually support versions of gcc; gdb supports certain debug
formats, which gcc also supports.

So about this version?

2004-10-17  Michael Chastain  <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>

	* NEWS: GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

Index: NEWS
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvs/src/src/gdb/NEWS,v
retrieving revision 1.161
diff -c -3 -p -r1.161 NEWS
*** NEWS	12 Aug 2004 21:44:19 -0000	1.161
--- NEWS	17 Oct 2004 20:06:05 -0000
***************
*** 1,7 ****
  		What has changed in GDB?
  	     (Organized release by release)
  
! *** Changes since GDB 6.2:
  
  *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
  
--- 1,15 ----
  		What has changed in GDB?
  	     (Organized release by release)
  
! *** Changes since GDB 6.2.1:
! 
! * GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
! 
! GDB now supports a more compact representation of DWARF-2 debug
! information using DW_FORM_ref_addr references.  These are produced
! by GCC with the option -feliminate-dwarf2-dups and also by some
! commercial compilers.  With GCC, you must use GCC 3.3.4 or later
! to use -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.
  
  *** Changes in GDB 6.2.1:
  

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:11:43 -0400
> From: Michael Chastain <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>
> Cc: gdb-patches@sources.redhat.com
> 
> Eli, I like this better than my original wording because gdb does
> not actually support versions of gcc; gdb supports certain debug
> formats, which gcc also supports.

I don't understand what you are saying; the original text was:

  * GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
  
  GDB now works with programs compiled with -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.
  You must use GCC 3.3.4 or later to use this option.

Where does this say that GDB supports versions of GCC? 

> So about this version?

I'd prefer something like this:

  * GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
  
  GDB can now debug programs compiled with the -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
  option to GCC 3.3.4 or later, as well as programs compiled with
  proprietary compilers that produce similar debug information (a more
  compact representation of DWARF-2 debug information using the
  DW_FORM_ref_addr references).

That is what I meant in my previous message: put the user-oriented
information first, and the technicalities after that.

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Michael Chastain]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> I don't understand what you are saying ...

It's like this.  When gdb and gcc don't work together, I have to decide
whether I think it's a bug in gdb (so I file a gdb PR) or a bug in gcc
(so I file a gcc PR).  Some contemplation of this relationship leads
me to say: gdb and gcc are truly separate entities.  It's not that
"gdb X works with gcc Y", it's more exactly "gdb X and gcc Y both
support standards Z1, Z2, and Z3".

This is especially true because gdb works with other compilers besides gcc,
and as far as I know, gcc works with other debuggers besides gdb.

It's a subtle point, and even after you see it, you might not agree
with it.

eli> GDB can now debug programs compiled with the -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
eli> option to GCC 3.3.4 or later, as well as programs compiled with
eli> proprietary compilers that produce similar debug information (a more
eli> compact representation of DWARF-2 debug information using the
eli> DW_FORM_ref_addr references).

Well, after fooling with this a little bit, I like my version better.
I'm comfortable claiming that GDB supports DW_FORM_ref_addr, so that if
a compiler produces this information, GDB can support it.  I'm not
comfortable claiming that GDB can support "programs compiled with
proprietary compilers that produce similar debug information".

But you're the doco guy, so if you like it that way, go for it.

Michael

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:13:46 -0400
> From: Michael Chastain <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>
> Cc: gdb-patches@sources.redhat.com
> 
> It's like this.  When gdb and gcc don't work together, I have to decide
> whether I think it's a bug in gdb (so I file a gdb PR) or a bug in gcc
> (so I file a gcc PR).  Some contemplation of this relationship leads
> me to say: gdb and gcc are truly separate entities.  It's not that
> "gdb X works with gcc Y", it's more exactly "gdb X and gcc Y both
> support standards Z1, Z2, and Z3".

IMHO, these considerations don't matter when a NEWS entry is being
considered.  What matters then is that something which didn't work
before works now.

> eli> GDB can now debug programs compiled with the -feliminate-dwarf2-dups
> eli> option to GCC 3.3.4 or later, as well as programs compiled with
> eli> proprietary compilers that produce similar debug information (a more
> eli> compact representation of DWARF-2 debug information using the
> eli> DW_FORM_ref_addr references).
> 
> Well, after fooling with this a little bit, I like my version better.
> I'm comfortable claiming that GDB supports DW_FORM_ref_addr, so that if
> a compiler produces this information, GDB can support it.  I'm not
> comfortable claiming that GDB can support "programs compiled with
> proprietary compilers that produce similar debug information".

I won't start a dispute out of a 5-liner, so go ahead and commit your
version.  However, at the very least replace "commercial" with
"proprietary".  This is a distinction the FSF asks us to make (there's
nothing to prevent a free software project from going commercial as
long at is stays GPL-compliant).

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 06:34:59AM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> I won't start a dispute out of a 5-liner, so go ahead and commit your
> version.  However, at the very least replace "commercial" with
> "proprietary".  This is a distinction the FSF asks us to make (there's
> nothing to prevent a free software project from going commercial as
> long at is stays GPL-compliant).

Either phrasing is fine with me.  But, for the record, I chose the word
deliberately; I don't know of any other free compilers which produce
it, but I do know of compilers which are both commercial and
proprietary which do so.  "non-GCC" would be just as accurate a bucket.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Michael Chastain]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> IMHO, these considerations don't matter when a NEWS entry is being
> considered.  What matters then is that something which didn't work
> before works now.

Well, this is the sort of philosophical fine point that works better
face-to-face with some beer rather than e-mail.

> However, at the very least replace "commercial" with
> "proprietary".  This is a distinction the FSF asks us to make (there's
> nothing to prevent a free software project from going commercial as
> long at is stays GPL-compliant).

Sure, I'll be happy to do that.

Michael

Re: [rfc/NEWS] GDB works with GCC -feliminate-dwarf2-dups.

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:23:15 -0400
> From: Daniel Jacobowitz <dan@debian.org>
> Cc: Michael Chastain <mec.gnu@mindspring.com>,
> 	gdb-patches@sources.redhat.com
> 
> But, for the record, I chose the word deliberately; I don't know of
> any other free compilers which produce it, but I do know of
> compilers which are both commercial and proprietary which do so.

The point is, GCC can be sold as part of a commercial package, as long
as it isn't proprietary.

> "non-GCC" would be just as accurate a bucket.

Indeed.