* [ltt-dev] Fwd: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
2010-08-20 19:52 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
@ 2010-08-21 16:09 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-25 12:40 ` Medved, Michael
2 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Medved, Michael @ 2010-08-21 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw)
I tried dropping in the lttng patch but not actually activating any of
the options in menuconfig. That seems to work (at least on a
virtualbox, I can try it on HW on Monday), so now I'm compiling with
Markers and Immediate Value, but no Lttng. We'll see if that works and
I'll drop a reply.
M
On 08/20/2010 03:52 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>
>> Per Mathieu's email, I'm moving my question to this mailing list.
>>
>> In response to his question - I've already built the tiny core 2.6.33.3 kernel and installed it and it seems to work just fine. So when I drop the patch into this build is when things start going awry.
>>
>> The 2.6.33 (already patched for TC) can be had here:
>>
>> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/src/kernel/
>>
>>
> OK, can you try disabling all the lttng-specific options and rebuild ?
>
> Also try compiling them as modules, loading one by one, see which one
> fails.
>
> Also having the console output you get when it crashes would be helpful.
> A serial console usually does the trick.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mathieu
>
>
>> M
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
>> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:57:13 -0400
>> From: Mathieu Desnoyers<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> <mailto:mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
>> To: Medved, Michael<medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM> <mailto:medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM>
>>
>>
>> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mathieu-
>>>
>>> I'm a NASA contractor and I'd like to us lttng to do some
>>> tracing/profiling of some applications I'm writing for the ISS. I'm
>>> using a linux distro called tiny core, and have successfully gotten the
>>> kernel to compile with the lttng patches applied (to a 2.6.33.3 kernel),
>>> but when I boot it, it doesn't go to the desktop like usual. Instead it
>>> spits out a bunch of information (hex numbers, modprobe stuff, etc) and
>>> then goes to a blank line with no cursor, and it doesn't matter what I
>>> type, nothing happens. Interestingly, if I put in a USB stick it spits
>>> out a bunch of info about it. I compiled everything from that version
>>> of lttng (.213) into the kernel (none as modules).
>>>
>>> I didn't see any forums on the lttng website or any good place to ask my
>>> question, so I thought I'd drop you an email and see if you can point me
>>> in the right direction?
>>>
>> Usually these questions go through the mailing list,
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca.
>>
>> You should probably try booting your kernel without the lttng patches applied to
>> make sure it's not just a matter of a missing driver (e.g. proprietary nvidia
>> ?) from your kernel per se.
>>
>> The problem may not even be related to lttng, so it would be good to check that
>> first. So you should try a 2.6.33.3 kernel without lttng applied.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mathieu
>>
>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> M
>>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Desnoyers
>> Operating System Efficiency R&D Consultant
>> EfficiOS Inc.
>> http://www.efficios.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ltt-dev mailing list
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca
>> http://lists.casi.polymtl.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ltt-dev
>>
>>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [ltt-dev] Fwd: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
2010-08-20 19:52 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2010-08-21 16:09 ` Medved, Michael
@ 2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-25 12:40 ` Medved, Michael
2 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Medved, Michael @ 2010-08-21 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
Interestingly enough, when I just compile in Activate Markers and
Immediate Value optimization, I get problems. No lttng stuff. Attached
is the serial dump... after "Done" shows up on the console it just
sits. You can type, but it has no effect.
M
On 08/20/2010 03:52 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>
>> Per Mathieu's email, I'm moving my question to this mailing list.
>>
>> In response to his question - I've already built the tiny core 2.6.33.3 kernel and installed it and it seems to work just fine. So when I drop the patch into this build is when things start going awry.
>>
>> The 2.6.33 (already patched for TC) can be had here:
>>
>> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/src/kernel/
>>
>>
> OK, can you try disabling all the lttng-specific options and rebuild ?
>
> Also try compiling them as modules, loading one by one, see which one
> fails.
>
> Also having the console output you get when it crashes would be helpful.
> A serial console usually does the trick.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mathieu
>
>
>> M
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
>> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:57:13 -0400
>> From: Mathieu Desnoyers<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> <mailto:mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
>> To: Medved, Michael<medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM> <mailto:medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM>
>>
>>
>> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mathieu-
>>>
>>> I'm a NASA contractor and I'd like to us lttng to do some
>>> tracing/profiling of some applications I'm writing for the ISS. I'm
>>> using a linux distro called tiny core, and have successfully gotten the
>>> kernel to compile with the lttng patches applied (to a 2.6.33.3 kernel),
>>> but when I boot it, it doesn't go to the desktop like usual. Instead it
>>> spits out a bunch of information (hex numbers, modprobe stuff, etc) and
>>> then goes to a blank line with no cursor, and it doesn't matter what I
>>> type, nothing happens. Interestingly, if I put in a USB stick it spits
>>> out a bunch of info about it. I compiled everything from that version
>>> of lttng (.213) into the kernel (none as modules).
>>>
>>> I didn't see any forums on the lttng website or any good place to ask my
>>> question, so I thought I'd drop you an email and see if you can point me
>>> in the right direction?
>>>
>> Usually these questions go through the mailing list,
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca.
>>
>> You should probably try booting your kernel without the lttng patches applied to
>> make sure it's not just a matter of a missing driver (e.g. proprietary nvidia
>> ?) from your kernel per se.
>>
>> The problem may not even be related to lttng, so it would be good to check that
>> first. So you should try a 2.6.33.3 kernel without lttng applied.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mathieu
>>
>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> M
>>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Desnoyers
>> Operating System Efficiency R&D Consultant
>> EfficiOS Inc.
>> http://www.efficios.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ltt-dev mailing list
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca
>> http://lists.casi.polymtl.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ltt-dev
>>
>>
>
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* [ltt-dev] Fwd: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
@ 2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Medved, Michael @ 2010-08-21 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
Interestingly enough, when I just compile in Activate Markers and
Immediate Value optimization, I get problems. No lttng stuff. Attached
is the serial dump... after "Done" shows up on the console it just
sits. You can type, but it has no effect.
M
On 08/20/2010 03:52 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>
>> Per Mathieu's email, I'm moving my question to this mailing list.
>>
>> In response to his question - I've already built the tiny core 2.6.33.3 kernel and installed it and it seems to work just fine. So when I drop the patch into this build is when things start going awry.
>>
>> The 2.6.33 (already patched for TC) can be had here:
>>
>> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/src/kernel/
>>
>>
> OK, can you try disabling all the lttng-specific options and rebuild ?
>
> Also try compiling them as modules, loading one by one, see which one
> fails.
>
> Also having the console output you get when it crashes would be helpful.
> A serial console usually does the trick.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mathieu
>
>
>> M
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
>> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:57:13 -0400
>> From: Mathieu Desnoyers<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> <mailto:mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
>> To: Medved, Michael<medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM> <mailto:medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM>
>>
>>
>> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mathieu-
>>>
>>> I'm a NASA contractor and I'd like to us lttng to do some
>>> tracing/profiling of some applications I'm writing for the ISS. I'm
>>> using a linux distro called tiny core, and have successfully gotten the
>>> kernel to compile with the lttng patches applied (to a 2.6.33.3 kernel),
>>> but when I boot it, it doesn't go to the desktop like usual. Instead it
>>> spits out a bunch of information (hex numbers, modprobe stuff, etc) and
>>> then goes to a blank line with no cursor, and it doesn't matter what I
>>> type, nothing happens. Interestingly, if I put in a USB stick it spits
>>> out a bunch of info about it. I compiled everything from that version
>>> of lttng (.213) into the kernel (none as modules).
>>>
>>> I didn't see any forums on the lttng website or any good place to ask my
>>> question, so I thought I'd drop you an email and see if you can point me
>>> in the right direction?
>>>
>> Usually these questions go through the mailing list,
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca.
>>
>> You should probably try booting your kernel without the lttng patches applied to
>> make sure it's not just a matter of a missing driver (e.g. proprietary nvidia
>> ?) from your kernel per se.
>>
>> The problem may not even be related to lttng, so it would be good to check that
>> first. So you should try a 2.6.33.3 kernel without lttng applied.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mathieu
>>
>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> M
>>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Desnoyers
>> Operating System Efficiency R&D Consultant
>> EfficiOS Inc.
>> http://www.efficios.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ltt-dev mailing list
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca
>> http://lists.casi.polymtl.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ltt-dev
>>
>>
>
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* [ltt-dev] Fwd: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
@ 2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Medved, Michael @ 2010-08-21 16:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
Interestingly enough, when I just compile in Activate Markers and
Immediate Value optimization, I get problems. No lttng stuff. Attached
is the serial dump... after "Done" shows up on the console it just
sits. You can type, but it has no effect.
M
On 08/20/2010 03:52 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>
>> Per Mathieu's email, I'm moving my question to this mailing list.
>>
>> In response to his question - I've already built the tiny core 2.6.33.3 kernel and installed it and it seems to work just fine. So when I drop the patch into this build is when things start going awry.
>>
>> The 2.6.33 (already patched for TC) can be had here:
>>
>> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/src/kernel/
>>
>>
> OK, can you try disabling all the lttng-specific options and rebuild ?
>
> Also try compiling them as modules, loading one by one, see which one
> fails.
>
> Also having the console output you get when it crashes would be helpful.
> A serial console usually does the trick.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mathieu
>
>
>> M
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
>> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:57:13 -0400
>> From: Mathieu Desnoyers<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> <mailto:mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
>> To: Medved, Michael<medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM> <mailto:medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM>
>>
>>
>> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mathieu-
>>>
>>> I'm a NASA contractor and I'd like to us lttng to do some
>>> tracing/profiling of some applications I'm writing for the ISS. I'm
>>> using a linux distro called tiny core, and have successfully gotten the
>>> kernel to compile with the lttng patches applied (to a 2.6.33.3 kernel),
>>> but when I boot it, it doesn't go to the desktop like usual. Instead it
>>> spits out a bunch of information (hex numbers, modprobe stuff, etc) and
>>> then goes to a blank line with no cursor, and it doesn't matter what I
>>> type, nothing happens. Interestingly, if I put in a USB stick it spits
>>> out a bunch of info about it. I compiled everything from that version
>>> of lttng (.213) into the kernel (none as modules).
>>>
>>> I didn't see any forums on the lttng website or any good place to ask my
>>> question, so I thought I'd drop you an email and see if you can point me
>>> in the right direction?
>>>
>> Usually these questions go through the mailing list,
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca.
>>
>> You should probably try booting your kernel without the lttng patches applied to
>> make sure it's not just a matter of a missing driver (e.g. proprietary nvidia
>> ?) from your kernel per se.
>>
>> The problem may not even be related to lttng, so it would be good to check that
>> first. So you should try a 2.6.33.3 kernel without lttng applied.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mathieu
>>
>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> M
>>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Desnoyers
>> Operating System Efficiency R&D Consultant
>> EfficiOS Inc.
>> http://www.efficios.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ltt-dev mailing list
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca
>> http://lists.casi.polymtl.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ltt-dev
>>
>>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [ltt-dev] Fwd: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
2010-08-20 19:52 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2010-08-21 16:09 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-21 16:29 ` Medved, Michael
@ 2010-08-25 12:40 ` Medved, Michael
2010-08-25 12:55 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
2 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Medved, Michael @ 2010-08-25 12:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
I tried compiling the modules in this configuration and got the
following error message:
CC [M] arch/x86/kvm/x86.o
arch/x86/kvm/x86.c: In function ???vcpu_enter_guest???:
arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: error: ???prof_on__imv??? undeclared (first use in
this function)
arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported
only once
arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: error: for each function it appears in.)
arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: warning: type defaults to ???int??? in declaration
of ???value???
make[2]: *** [arch/x86/kvm/x86.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [arch/x86/kvm] Error 2
make: *** [arch/x86] Error 2
Help?
M
On 08/20/2010 03:52 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>
>> Per Mathieu's email, I'm moving my question to this mailing list.
>>
>> In response to his question - I've already built the tiny core 2.6.33.3 kernel and installed it and it seems to work just fine. So when I drop the patch into this build is when things start going awry.
>>
>> The 2.6.33 (already patched for TC) can be had here:
>>
>> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/src/kernel/
>>
>>
> OK, can you try disabling all the lttng-specific options and rebuild ?
>
> Also try compiling them as modules, loading one by one, see which one
> fails.
>
> Also having the console output you get when it crashes would be helpful.
> A serial console usually does the trick.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mathieu
>
>
>> M
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
>> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:57:13 -0400
>> From: Mathieu Desnoyers<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> <mailto:mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
>> To: Medved, Michael<medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM> <mailto:medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM>
>>
>>
>> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mathieu-
>>>
>>> I'm a NASA contractor and I'd like to us lttng to do some
>>> tracing/profiling of some applications I'm writing for the ISS. I'm
>>> using a linux distro called tiny core, and have successfully gotten the
>>> kernel to compile with the lttng patches applied (to a 2.6.33.3 kernel),
>>> but when I boot it, it doesn't go to the desktop like usual. Instead it
>>> spits out a bunch of information (hex numbers, modprobe stuff, etc) and
>>> then goes to a blank line with no cursor, and it doesn't matter what I
>>> type, nothing happens. Interestingly, if I put in a USB stick it spits
>>> out a bunch of info about it. I compiled everything from that version
>>> of lttng (.213) into the kernel (none as modules).
>>>
>>> I didn't see any forums on the lttng website or any good place to ask my
>>> question, so I thought I'd drop you an email and see if you can point me
>>> in the right direction?
>>>
>> Usually these questions go through the mailing list,
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca.
>>
>> You should probably try booting your kernel without the lttng patches applied to
>> make sure it's not just a matter of a missing driver (e.g. proprietary nvidia
>> ?) from your kernel per se.
>>
>> The problem may not even be related to lttng, so it would be good to check that
>> first. So you should try a 2.6.33.3 kernel without lttng applied.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mathieu
>>
>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> M
>>>
>> --
>> Mathieu Desnoyers
>> Operating System Efficiency R&D Consultant
>> EfficiOS Inc.
>> http://www.efficios.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ltt-dev mailing list
>> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca
>> http://lists.casi.polymtl.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ltt-dev
>>
>>
>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* [ltt-dev] Fwd: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
2010-08-25 12:40 ` Medved, Michael
@ 2010-08-25 12:55 ` Mathieu Desnoyers
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Mathieu Desnoyers @ 2010-08-25 12:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
* Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
> I tried compiling the modules in this configuration and got the
> following error message:
>
> CC [M] arch/x86/kvm/x86.o
> arch/x86/kvm/x86.c: In function ???vcpu_enter_guest???:
> arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: error: ???prof_on__imv??? undeclared (first use in
> this function)
> arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported
> only once
> arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: error: for each function it appears in.)
> arch/x86/kvm/x86.c:3937: warning: type defaults to ???int??? in declaration
> of ???value???
> make[2]: *** [arch/x86/kvm/x86.o] Error 1
> make[1]: *** [arch/x86/kvm] Error 2
> make: *** [arch/x86] Error 2
>
> Help?
try: CONFIG_IMMEDIATE=n in your .config.
Mathieu
>
> M
>
> On 08/20/2010 03:52 PM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> > * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
> >
> >> Per Mathieu's email, I'm moving my question to this mailing list.
> >>
> >> In response to his question - I've already built the tiny core 2.6.33.3 kernel and installed it and it seems to work just fine. So when I drop the patch into this build is when things start going awry.
> >>
> >> The 2.6.33 (already patched for TC) can be had here:
> >>
> >> http://distro.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/distributions/tinycorelinux/3.x/release/src/kernel/
> >>
> >>
> > OK, can you try disabling all the lttng-specific options and rebuild ?
> >
> > Also try compiling them as modules, loading one by one, see which one
> > fails.
> >
> > Also having the console output you get when it crashes would be helpful.
> > A serial console usually does the trick.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Mathieu
> >
> >
> >> M
> >>
> >> -------- Original Message --------
> >> Subject: Re: Lttng and Tiny Core?
> >> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:57:13 -0400
> >> From: Mathieu Desnoyers<mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> <mailto:mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com>
> >> To: Medved, Michael<medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM> <mailto:medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM>
> >>
> >>
> >> * Medved, Michael (medvedm at ZIN-TECH.COM) wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Mathieu-
> >>>
> >>> I'm a NASA contractor and I'd like to us lttng to do some
> >>> tracing/profiling of some applications I'm writing for the ISS. I'm
> >>> using a linux distro called tiny core, and have successfully gotten the
> >>> kernel to compile with the lttng patches applied (to a 2.6.33.3 kernel),
> >>> but when I boot it, it doesn't go to the desktop like usual. Instead it
> >>> spits out a bunch of information (hex numbers, modprobe stuff, etc) and
> >>> then goes to a blank line with no cursor, and it doesn't matter what I
> >>> type, nothing happens. Interestingly, if I put in a USB stick it spits
> >>> out a bunch of info about it. I compiled everything from that version
> >>> of lttng (.213) into the kernel (none as modules).
> >>>
> >>> I didn't see any forums on the lttng website or any good place to ask my
> >>> question, so I thought I'd drop you an email and see if you can point me
> >>> in the right direction?
> >>>
> >> Usually these questions go through the mailing list,
> >> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca.
> >>
> >> You should probably try booting your kernel without the lttng patches applied to
> >> make sure it's not just a matter of a missing driver (e.g. proprietary nvidia
> >> ?) from your kernel per se.
> >>
> >> The problem may not even be related to lttng, so it would be good to check that
> >> first. So you should try a 2.6.33.3 kernel without lttng applied.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Mathieu
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks!
> >>> M
> >>>
> >> --
> >> Mathieu Desnoyers
> >> Operating System Efficiency R&D Consultant
> >> EfficiOS Inc.
> >> http://www.efficios.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> ltt-dev mailing list
> >> ltt-dev at lists.casi.polymtl.ca
> >> http://lists.casi.polymtl.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ltt-dev
> >>
> >>
> >
>
--
Mathieu Desnoyers
Operating System Efficiency R&D Consultant
EfficiOS Inc.
http://www.efficios.com
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread