5.1 NEWS

5.1 NEWS

[Andrew Cagney]

Hello,

The NEWS file could do with a few more updates.

Pascal and ``limited support for the C++ v3.0 ABI'' come to mind.

	Andrew

*** Changes since GDB 5.0:

* "info symbol" works on platforms which use COFF, ECOFF, XCOFF, and NLM.

* The MI enabled.

The new machine oriented interface (MI) introduced in GDB 5.0 has been
revised and enabled.

* New native configurations

Alpha FreeBSD                                   alpha*-*-freebsd*
x86 FreeBSD 3.x and 4.x                         i[3456]86*-freebsd[34]*

* New targets

* OBSOLETE configurations and files

x86 FreeBSD before 2.2 
i[3456]86*-freebsd{1,2.[01]}*,
Harris/CXUX m88k                                m88*-harris-cxux*
Most ns32k hosts and targets                    ns32k-*-mach3* ns32k-umax-*
                                                 ns32k-utek-sysv* 
ns32k-utek-*
TI TMS320C80                                    tic80-*-*
WDC 65816                                       w65-*-*
Ultracomputer (29K) running Sym1                a29k-nyu-sym1 a29k-*-kern*
PowerPC Solaris                                 powerpcle-*-solaris*
PowerPC Windows NT                              powerpcle-*-cygwin32
PowerPC Netware                                 powerpc-*-netware*
SunOS 4.0.Xi on i386                            i[3456]86-*-sunos*
Sony NEWS (68K) running NEWSOS 3.x              m68*-sony-sysv news
ISI Optimum V (3.05) under 4.3bsd.              m68*-isi-*
Apple Macintosh (MPW) host                      N/A

stuff.c (Program to stuff files into a specially prepared space in kdb)
kdb-start.c (Main loop for the standalone kernel debugger)

Configurations that have been declared obsolete in this release have
been commented out.  Unless there is activity to revive these
configurations, the next release of GDB will have their sources
permanently REMOVED.

* REMOVED configurations and files

Altos 3068                                      m68*-altos-*
Convex                                          c1-*-*, c2-*-*
Pyramid                                         pyramid-*-*
ARM RISCix                                      arm-*-* (as host)
Tahoe                                           tahoe-*-*
ser-ocd.c                                       *-*-*

* Other news:

* All MIPS configurations are multi-arched.

Multi-arch support is enabled for all MIPS configurations.

* GDB's version number moved to ``version.in''

The Makefile variable VERSION has been replaced by the file
``version.in''.  People creating GDB distributions should update the
contents of this file.

* gdba.el deleted

GUD support is now a standard part of the EMACS distribution.

Re: 5.1 NEWS

[Daniel Berlin]

Andrew Cagney <ac131313@cygnus.com> writes:

> Hello,
> 
> The NEWS file could do with a few more updates.
> 
> Pascal and ``limited support for the C++ v3.0 ABI'' come to mind.

Pascal support doesn't work all that well.
For starters, it doesn't even set the case sensitivity to off in the language
definition, for instance.  Forget about actually doing good pascal debugging.
I noticed it barely works when I started verifying i did the right
thing for fortran and pascal in the new typesystem.
So if you put something about pascal, put "limited pascal support".


-- 
"A cop stopped me for speeding.  He said, "Why were you going so
fast?"  I said, "See this thing my foot is on?  It's called an
accelerator.  When you push down on it, it sends more gas to the
engine.  The whole car just takes right off.  And see this
thing?  This steers it."
"-Steven Wright

Re: 5.1 NEWS

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Daniel Berlin wrote:

> > Pascal and ``limited support for the C++ v3.0 ABI'' come to mind.
> 
> Pascal support doesn't work all that well.

I'm sure the maintainers of Pascal support would _love_ to see bona
fide bug reports ;-)

Re: 5.1 NEWS

[Andrew Cagney]

Hmm, how can I put this.

GDB's Pascal support is new, people will have reasonable expectations 
and a keenness to help fix it.  GDB's C++ support, on the other hand, is 
old.  Unless told otherwize, people are going to assume that it all 
works perfectly, even for the new v3 C++ ABI.

In using the word ``limited'', I'm trying to set expecations.  If you 
think there is a better turn of phrase then please put it forward.

	Andrew


> Andrew Cagney <ac131313@cygnus.com> writes:
> 
> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> The NEWS file could do with a few more updates.
>> 
>> Pascal and ``limited support for the C++ v3.0 ABI'' come to mind.
> 
> 
> Pascal support doesn't work all that well.
> For starters, it doesn't even set the case sensitivity to off in the language
> definition, for instance.  Forget about actually doing good pascal debugging.
> I noticed it barely works when I started verifying i did the right
> thing for fortran and pascal in the new typesystem.
> So if you put something about pascal, put "limited pascal support".

Re: 5.1 NEWS

[Daniel Berlin]

Andrew Cagney <ac131313@cygnus.com> writes:

> Hmm, how can I put this.
> 
> GDB's Pascal support is new, people will have reasonable expectations
> and a keenness to help fix it.  GDB's C++ support, on the other hand,
> is old.  Unless told otherwize, people are going to assume that it all
> works perfectly, even for the new v3 C++ ABI.
> 
> In using the word ``limited'', I'm trying to set expecations.  If you
> think there is a better turn of phrase then please put it forward.
> 

Err, I have no problem with the words "limited support for the C++
v3.0 ABI". Put whatever you want there.  I'm just concerned that saying just "Pascal support" without
qualifying it will cause the user's expectations to be higher than
they should be.  
I.E. 
If I read in a news file that a debugger now had "Fortran Support",
I'd expect it to be at the same level as all the other languages,
whether it's new or not.

> 	Andrew
> 
> 
>> Andrew Cagney <ac131313@cygnus.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> The NEWS file could do with a few more updates.
>>> Pascal and ``limited support for the C++ v3.0 ABI'' come to mind.
>> Pascal support doesn't work all that well.
>> For starters, it doesn't even set the case sensitivity to off in the language
>> definition, for instance.  Forget about actually doing good pascal debugging.
>> I noticed it barely works when I started verifying i did the right
>> thing for fortran and pascal in the new typesystem.
>> So if you put something about pascal, put "limited pascal support".
> 

-- 
"I went to the hardware store and bought some used paint.  It was
in the shape of a house.  I also bought some batteries, but they
weren't included.  So I had to buy them again.
"-Steven Wright

Re: 5.1 NEWS

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Daniel Berlin wrote:

> If I read in a news file that a debugger now had "Fortran Support",
> I'd expect it to be at the same level as all the other languages,
> whether it's new or not.

Clear and concise bug reports might help solve whatever problems you see.

Re: 5.1 NEWS

[Daniel Berlin]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@is.elta.co.il> writes:

> On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Daniel Berlin wrote:
> 
>> If I read in a news file that a debugger now had "Fortran Support",
>> I'd expect it to be at the same level as all the other languages,
>> whether it's new or not.
> 
> Clear and concise bug reports might help solve whatever problems you
> see.
Thanks for the hint. Again.
I'll be filing them, as soon as I can get gpc to compile again to
produce test cases (obviously, the case sensitivity one i'll file in
the morning before i work on making gpc compile again.)

However, you speak of it as if these were a few isolated problems.
They weren't.
You get hit with them attempting to debug any pascal program, right
from the get go (this is a pascal program i had compiled last time i
tried this):

(%:/buildspace/gpc-20010623/p/test)- gdb ./index
GNU gdb 2001-07-05-cvs (MI_OUT)
Copyright 2001 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and
you are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
conditions.
Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for
details.
This GDB was configured as "powerpc-unknown-linux-gnu"...
(gdb) l
36      <implicit code>: No such file or directory.
        in <implicit code>

>>>>what?
(gdb) l main
40 in  <implicit code>

>>>>What?

(gdb) info func

File index.pas:
procedure Foo;
procedure fini_pascal_main_program;
procedure init_pascal_main_program;
function  main(Integer, ^Cstring, ^Cstring) : Integer;
procedure pascal_main_program;
static procedure Bar;

Non-debugging symbols:
$00000618  Letext
(gdb) ptype kinds
No symbol "KINDS" in current context.

>>Lies
(gdb) ptype scanres
No symbol "SCANRES" in current context.
>>Lies
(gdb) info types
All defined types:

File index.pas:
type  complex float =  complex float;
type  complex int =  complex int;
type  complex long double =  complex long double;
type Bindingtype = Bindingtype;
type Boolean = Boolean;
type Bytebool = Bytebool;
type Bytecard = Bytecard;
type Byteint = Byteint;
type Cardinal = Cardinal;
type Char = Char;
type Complex = Complex;
type Cstring = Cstring;
type Integer = Integer;
type Kinds =   = (Ident, Number, Op, Endfile);
type Longestbool = Longestbool;
type Longestcard = Longestcard;
type Longestint = Longestint;
type Longestreal = Longestreal;
type Medbool = Medbool;
type Medcard = Medcard;
type Medint = Medint;
type Pointer = Pointer;
type Ptrcard = Ptrcard;
type Ptrint = Ptrint;
type Real = Real;
type Scanres = record
        Symbol : Symb;
        Kind : Kinds;
end;
type Shortbool = Shortbool;
type Shortcard = Shortcard;
type Shortreal = Shortreal;
type Smallint = Smallint;
type String = String;
type Text = <unknown type>;
type Timestamp = Timestamp;
type Void = Void;
type Wordbool = Wordbool;
(gdb) ptype String
type = record
    Capacity : Cardinal;
    length : Cardinal;
    _p_schema_ : <invalid unnamed pascal type code 13>;
end
(gdb) ptype Scanres
type = record
     Symbol : Sym;
     Kind : Kinds;
end;
>>> Oh, i had to magically force readin of all the types through info
>>> types before i can use any. Whee. And string is broken. Whee.

Don't even try to think about actually *running* the program or printing out
variables.
Or casting.
For starters, we should list what the parser does, as known problems:
(from p-exp.y, at the top)
    - pascal string operations are not supported at all.
    - there are some problems with boolean types.
    - Pascal type hexadecimal constants are not supported
      because they conflict with the internal variables format.
   Probably also lots of other problems, less well defined PM */
These are *serious* limitations.
Not namby pamby little problems.
Not that I think that it shouldn't be in gdb yet, or that Pierre isn't
doing a good job so far. But it's pretty clear it's still experimental.
And as evidenced, Pierre knows about at least some of these problems,
too, if not all of them.  And
"Probably also lots of other problems, less well defined" doesn't
give me a good feeling about it being in good shape yet either.
So once again, I urge you to simply not put "Pascal support" in the
news.
It's a work in progress, and not up to the level of support we have
for other languages.

I'm also curious as to why I have to go to great lengths to prove
this. It's pretty clear to anyone who looks at the tops of the source
files, or tries to debug a simple pascal program.  Heck, i'm sure
Pierre would happily tell you all of these bugs are there too, if
someone asked him. It doesn't seem he's completely unaware their are
problems.

I'm sure Pierre will get it into good shape sometime, but unless he 
has a bunch of patches he hasn't submitted, i'd have to assume this
won't be 5.1. 
--Dan






-- 
"Doing a little work around the house.  I put fake brick
wallpaper over a real brick wall, just so I'd be the only one
who knew.  People come over and I'm gonna say, "Go ahead, touch
it...  It feels real."
"-Steven Wright

Re: 5.1 NEWS

[Eli Zaretskii]

On Mon, 9 Jul 2001, Daniel Berlin wrote:

> > Clear and concise bug reports might help solve whatever problems you
> > see.
> Thanks for the hint. Again.

Sorry, given the lack of response to the previous hint, I thought my 
message got lost.

> However, you speak of it as if these were a few isolated problems.
> They weren't.
> You get hit with them attempting to debug any pascal program, right
> from the get go (this is a pascal program i had compiled last time i
> tried this):

I don't even know what Pascal compiler did Pierre use for testing the 
current support (was it really gpc?), so I cannot judge the problems you 
present.

> (from p-exp.y, at the top)
>     - pascal string operations are not supported at all.
>     - there are some problems with boolean types.
>     - Pascal type hexadecimal constants are not supported
>       because they conflict with the internal variables format.
>    Probably also lots of other problems, less well defined PM */
> These are *serious* limitations.

Not unlike many others in GDB.  Problems with shared libraries, 
multi-threading, and C++ come to mind.

> I'm also curious as to why I have to go to great lengths to prove
> this.

Because you know something others don't.  For example, I never use 
Pascal, so I don't have time to read Pascal-related files in GDB.  For 
the same reason, you probably don't know much about limitations of GDB in 
the DJGPP port, so it's up to me to ``go to great lengths'' in order to 
explain them, should that become an issue (as it happened a few times).