TODO List?

TODO List?

[Rob Quill]

Hi,

 I've just started looking at GDB as I'm planning on extending it
using some research for my third year project next year. However, I
can't find the TODO list to see what is  on there already. Can anyone
give me any pointers?

 Thanks,
 Rob

Re: TODO List?

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Rob Quill wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've just started looking at GDB as I'm planning on extending it
> using some research for my third year project next year. However, I
> can't find the TODO list to see what is  on there already. Can anyone
> give me any pointers?

There really isn't one yet.  We've been thinking of setting up a Wiki
to track this sort of thing.  There's lots and lots of unfinished (or
even unstarted) projects; but most of them live in peoples' heads.

Are you looking for existing projects, or did you have some particular
sort of research in mind?

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
CodeSourcery

Re: TODO List?

[Rob Quill]

No, no, I was just curious. I hope you don't mind if I keep it under
wraps a bit for a while, as it's a) to do with the university's
research ideas (which aren't really mine to divulge, obviously) and b)
it's my assessed project for next year and it'll look better if I've
done something that hasn't been done yet (in other words, if I tell
you, what if you do it before me :) )

Is it cool to ask anything GDB related on here? I imagine I'll be
using the list quite a lot over the coming months as I try to get to
grips with the code. Do you have any suggestions for how to go about
this? I have downloaded the GDB Internals document, and will be having
a look through that. Do you have any other suggestions for how to go
about getting to grips with the code? Also, is it alright to ask
questions about the GDB Internals document on here, if there are
things I don't understand.

Thanks for your time,

Rob

On 13/05/06, Daniel Jacobowitz <drow@false.org> wrote:
> On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 12:24:15PM +0100, Rob Quill wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've just started looking at GDB as I'm planning on extending it
> > using some research for my third year project next year. However, I
> > can't find the TODO list to see what is  on there already. Can anyone
> > give me any pointers?
>
> There really isn't one yet.  We've been thinking of setting up a Wiki
> to track this sort of thing.  There's lots and lots of unfinished (or
> even unstarted) projects; but most of them live in peoples' heads.
>
> Are you looking for existing projects, or did you have some particular
> sort of research in mind?
>
> --
> Daniel Jacobowitz
> CodeSourcery
>

Re: TODO List?

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Sat, May 13, 2006 at 06:11:41PM +0100, Rob Quill wrote:
> Is it cool to ask anything GDB related on here? I imagine I'll be
> using the list quite a lot over the coming months as I try to get to
> grips with the code. Do you have any suggestions for how to go about
> this? I have downloaded the GDB Internals document, and will be having
> a look through that. Do you have any other suggestions for how to go
> about getting to grips with the code? Also, is it alright to ask
> questions about the GDB Internals document on here, if there are
> things I don't understand.

Yes, that all sounds fine.

If you've got time to kill and want to poke around the code, feel free
to pick bugs out of the GNATS database :-)

[If you intend for your research work to be usable by and incorporated
into mainline GDB some day, you may want to work on copyright
assignment paperwork.  Since this is university research work, the
university would have to submit some paperwork too - this can take ages
to sort out, so if you want it done, it's good to start early :-)]

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
CodeSourcery

Re: TODO List?

[Robert Dewar]

Daniel Jacobowitz wrote:

> [If you intend for your research work to be usable by and incorporated
> into mainline GDB some day, you may want to work on copyright
> assignment paperwork.  Since this is university research work, the
> university would have to submit some paperwork too - this can take ages
> to sort out, so if you want it done, it's good to start early :-)]

Right, and it is often very hard to convince universities to yield the
"intellectual property rights" involved. But please try hard. An
interesting little note here is that the government contract for gnat
required the copyright to be assigned to the FSF (this contract
actually had the entire text of the GPL and required release under
the GPL, a quite interesting provision for such a contract). At the
end of the period of support, NYU initially balked at assigning the
copyright, but I pointed out they had signed a contract requiring
them to do so, and they finally did.

If anyone has trouble negotiating with university authorities in
this regard, I am happy to try to help out (since I have had quite
a bit of experience in doing this in a university environment).

Robert Dewar

Re: TODO List?

[Rob Quill]

Qutoing the module website:

"Who owns my project intellectual property rights?

You own them. If you are sponsored, you still own them unless you have
explicitly signed a legal document transferring them to your sponsor.

We would strongly discourage you from signing any contract or other
document assigning any rights to your sponsor without seeking advice
from us. Please contact the project organisers in the first instance."

So it should be fine. As I see it, it should be nothing to do with the
University, beyond the fact that I implemented some research that was
done by other people there. Right?

Thanks,
Rob

On 14/05/06, Robert Dewar <dewar@adacore.com> wrote:
> Daniel Jacobowitz wrote:
>
> > [If you intend for your research work to be usable by and incorporated
> > into mainline GDB some day, you may want to work on copyright
> > assignment paperwork.  Since this is university research work, the
> > university would have to submit some paperwork too - this can take ages
> > to sort out, so if you want it done, it's good to start early :-)]
>
> Right, and it is often very hard to convince universities to yield the
> "intellectual property rights" involved. But please try hard. An
> interesting little note here is that the government contract for gnat
> required the copyright to be assigned to the FSF (this contract
> actually had the entire text of the GPL and required release under
> the GPL, a quite interesting provision for such a contract). At the
> end of the period of support, NYU initially balked at assigning the
> copyright, but I pointed out they had signed a contract requiring
> them to do so, and they finally did.
>
> If anyone has trouble negotiating with university authorities in
> this regard, I am happy to try to help out (since I have had quite
> a bit of experience in doing this in a university environment).
>
> Robert Dewar
>

Re: TODO List?

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 11:41:52AM +0100, Rob Quill wrote:
> Qutoing the module website:
> 
> "Who owns my project intellectual property rights?
> 
> You own them. If you are sponsored, you still own them unless you have
> explicitly signed a legal document transferring them to your sponsor.
> 
> We would strongly discourage you from signing any contract or other
> document assigning any rights to your sponsor without seeking advice
> from us. Please contact the project organisers in the first instance."
> 
> So it should be fine. As I see it, it should be nothing to do with the
> University, beyond the fact that I implemented some research that was
> done by other people there. Right?

Probably - but the people to confirm that with are not us, but the FSF
(specifically the assignment clerk).

What a forward-thinking university.  Wow.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
CodeSourcery

Re: TODO List?

[Robert Dewar]

Rob Quill wrote:
> Qutoing the module website:
> 
> "Who owns my project intellectual property rights?

How about we just say "copyrights and patents", rather than use the
dubious term IPR, even if everyone else does in the world? This
phrase tends to agree that these are property (which is controversial)
and that they are rights (which is controlversial). Just saying
copyrights and patents is neutral, and simply refers to actual
statutory provisions.
> 
> You own them. If you are sponsored, you still own them unless you have
> explicitly signed a legal document transferring them to your sponsor.

That's not quite right, if you are a full time employee, no legal
document is needed for your employer to own them. Also if you sign
a consultant agreement with the magic words "work for hire", the
same reasoning applies (this is in the USA, laws differ from
one country to another). Also in some cases, universities claim
some interest in any work done by students using their facilities.
In the case of the university of Texas (at least this used to be
true, don't know if it still is in this age of universities trying
to make money from copyrights and patents), all software developed
using department facilities is by default released under the GPL.
> 
> We would strongly discourage you from signing any contract or other
> document assigning any rights to your sponsor without seeking advice
> from us. Please contact the project organisers in the first instance."

Well that's certainly good advice, but it may not be quite sufficient.
> 
> So it should be fine. As I see it, it should be nothing to do with the
> University, beyond the fact that I implemented some research that was
> done by other people there. Right?

Well these things are very tricky, and as I mention above, universities
these days are trying to maximize the dollar value of their copyright
and patent portfolios.

So check with anyone likely to assert a right of ownership.

I suppose this is off topic, but on the other hand, one of the vital
issues in gcc and gdb development is to try to make sure that the
GNU project can take advantage of the work that people contribute.

Re: TODO List?

[Daniel Jacobowitz]

On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 12:03:33PM -0400, Robert Dewar wrote:
> I suppose this is off topic

Yes, it is.  Rob, I really recommend you ask assign@gnu.org; that's
the only way to get a definitive answer.

-- 
Daniel Jacobowitz
CodeSourcery

Re: TODO List?

[PAUL GILLIAM]

>       I have downloaded the GDB Internals document, and will be having
> a look through that. Do you have any other suggestions for how to go
> about getting to grips with the code? Also, is it alright to ask
> questions about the GDB Internals document on here, if there are
> things I don't understand.
> 
It might be really cool to use the internals document as a way of
keeping track of your developing understanding.

What I mean by that:  If you have a question about something that is
covered in the internals document and have a dialog with the gdb@ list
about it, formalize your new understanding by making needed changes in
the document and running them through the gdb-patches@ list.  This would
only apply if your original lack of understanding was due to a faulty
section or poor wording, etc. in the internals document.

If your question is about something that is *not* covered in the
document, but maybe should be, then update the document such that your
question is now answered by it.

If you could somehow incorporate this kind of procedure into your
project goals, then you would get credit for the 'extra' work entailed,
as well as the satisfaction of knowing you have helped others down the
line.

There are, of course, problems with this idea.  For example, the level
of detail in a question my not be appropriate for the internals
document, especially if in an area of GDB that is undergoing a lot of
change.

For many of us, the problem with this idea is the pressure we have to
'fix the next bug and get it on to the next one'.  Kind of a 'what have
you done for me lately' kind of thing.  But maybe in your environment,
this might not apply.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

-=# Paul Gilliam #=-