From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from simark.ca by simark.ca with LMTP id iZbtJVBv8WZqjzQAWB0awg (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 09:38:24 -0400 Authentication-Results: simark.ca; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; secure) header.d=sourceware.org header.i=@sourceware.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=default header.b=H8QtmR7l; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by simark.ca (Postfix, from userid 112) id 7C5C01E353; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 09:38:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on simark.ca X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.1 required=5.0 tests=ARC_SIGNED,ARC_VALID,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE,URIBL_BLOCKED,URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 Received: from server2.sourceware.org (server2.sourceware.org [8.43.85.97]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by simark.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A1071E05C for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 09:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from server2.sourceware.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AD133858D39 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 13:38:23 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 sourceware.org 0AD133858D39 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sourceware.org; s=default; t=1727098703; bh=+9so6jVjySY3EQCrpWjSVSdN4f54GmL/so9s2I6W6Pk=; h=References:In-Reply-To:Date:Subject:To:Cc:List-Id: List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe: From:Reply-To:From; b=H8QtmR7lfCEyug9RVqYsMvRxiZQ9WvV9tSJoxaljhhyQD8cpOHfWgxcLOoLJRS7s3 ffJhXYEv9POOS8/pjmN7hWEB/zXIIEJ88pEi8QkP7pwvNxv9IsKrPj809OnF6wW21S dhnU0DxHnqUAARgSQ9OqWDx1TT806kWCh9npQe4k= Received: from mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com (mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f2d]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7692E3858D26 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 13:36:43 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 7692E3858D26 ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v1.0.0 sourceware.org 7692E3858D26 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1727098606; cv=none; b=g5WeYWb0d39aAI3Amet/h52ddR9QEHRvsechzQyvsYd8bhHo35zzJPrRBT4JR5tFs2sAXHkDW40C4fcPgHLv5pYOcEM+muLpymgBBj35b3XGfw5G2QK1lTBljBPUB0q2focbXsCkeDCjSrZHrXR4veLhPO5/AW5PpCDrMlRj9AQ= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1727098606; c=relaxed/simple; bh=RqcThF6C4X3ty8+PrdlD9hkrDaKiM5lenbxP79Fn4TA=; h=DKIM-Signature:MIME-Version:From:Date:Message-ID:Subject:To; b=Tlp9zk3xB6KutQmfXirIQ+X+t2OuhR+uRtSJzIT2XqJ0axAbakua9JiuAyYHjSC5mrIzN7OxjlGUmeHp49kLfZE8ZUiXU9dqYvutsSGIvYAtlhWR3wCrG8qz3G+g6YNnmJW+LMxcx6EWM+tVklFSFD5SVwpkckOwdgjQOyRzYa4= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; server2.sourceware.org Received: by mail-qv1-xf2d.google.com with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6c3561804b5so37563946d6.0 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 06:36:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1727098603; x=1727703403; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=RqcThF6C4X3ty8+PrdlD9hkrDaKiM5lenbxP79Fn4TA=; b=bwtBA+2iy+2p/7neuyJZkDInCoyxnzPN6Oz6ge6oYreF5pkjeSKNrHywiDU5YvGzpl OzFUaGexW9nI8JL8qEAGj0usO4lpz3AmcAW9tKRkG5CprJaVy5OE7f1ADOOULyfs/DdH G/wvqEXOm4oIzjuE5+8t+L9x97zd4MBcgqPZd4Jc60zmkkMorI3uHonxaF4fsAYasrtN ojWiFevusH3UugbHnDyCslOzYPrvba2xG66kSzz4g0WbeBqBU5KVd3r+2+Wlc0EQjYoH qSigFl9/1VqHeJSW5DGjmle0tG4hQHtp7h6mDekqcRfQkJytRhO/Y79wsASGAv51PFH9 3ykg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWaYIomXzyQs+2SNDsKTJzGABRaTTuJZKHNu+1YtexO8woF2k4VRYDimsyKmKBWChgu7F0=@sourceware.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxZALxF6H5bLmrHsb4Xd4arkOCZIul0WXykHIQEDMHG7Tt+Gs2R ojMxOwKThpqNav48JGyqwTTR/HjuYP4fDQ4ehgu/0UXyGVo258XKk6QgTehKC0QiJae8i/0tOwL ZiU6SWyMF5JzpxMD62VpiRv7iKANS8XD8FoVi X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEvTfuIuSQubo1xei2IjBMlBVfAgpg9W66r7ohklFr1/lxvfFhps0Ut9CxGDhP/7jWoUaNmaLOPGlG9FroORmE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6214:3118:b0:6c3:463b:e1e1 with SMTP id 6a1803df08f44-6c7bc74f18cmr195606396d6.26.1727098602420; Mon, 23 Sep 2024 06:36:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <55715cf9-0f6c-4525-a310-7945db72dc21@netcologne.de> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 09:36:24 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: On pull request workflows for the GNU toolchain To: Jonathan Wakely Cc: Thomas Koenig , Joseph Myers , gcc@gcc.gnu.org, libc-alpha@sourceware.org, binutils@sourceware.org, gdb@sourceware.org, "fortran@gcc.gnu.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.30 X-BeenThere: gdb@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.30 Precedence: list List-Id: Gdb mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: enh via Gdb Reply-To: enh Errors-To: gdb-bounces~public-inbox=simark.ca@sourceware.org Sender: "Gdb" it doesn't make the patch _management_ problem better ("now i have two problems"), but https://github.com/landley/toybox takes the "why not both?" approach --- you can use pull requests if you grew up with/adapted to git/github, or you can use the mailing list otherwise ... taking into account that what the "barriers" are depend on whose eye's you're looking through. somewhat related, Android's NDK uses github as their issue tracker [while still having Google's usual "buganizer" issue tracker available] and we get orders of magnitude more interaction with our users on github --- like it or not, it's where the users are. anecdotally i notice people report bugs/send patches to github _mirrors_ of AOSP projects, and have no idea that's not the actual upstream. On Mon, Sep 23, 2024 at 9:23=E2=80=AFAM Jonathan Wakely wrote: > On Mon, 23 Sept 2024 at 13:09, Thomas Koenig via Gcc > wrote: > > > > [For the fortran people: Discussion on gcc@] > > > > Just a general remark. > > > > There are people, such as myself, who regularly mess up > > their git repositories because they have no mental model > > of what git is doing > > I highly recommend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D1ffBJ4sVUb4 which > gives an excellent mental model for the basics (and everything else > follows from those basic rules). > > > (case in point: The Fortran unsigned > > branch, which I managed to put into an unrepairable state > > despite considerable help from people who tried to help me > > fix it). This is especially true of volunteer maintainers, > > who are still the mainstay of gfortran. > > > > Whatever you end up doing, consider such maintainers, and > > if they still can contribute or would simply give up. > > If what you end up doing is too complicated, it may end up > > severely impacting the gfortran project (and possibly others). > > We already use Git in all the toolchain projects and there's no > suggestion to change that. > > The discussion is about how we do patch submission and patch review. > The GitHub pull request workflow is widely seen as simpler than our > current email-based workflow (not everybody agrees, of course). The > idea is to *lower* the barrier of entry for contributors, not raise > it. >