From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from simark.ca by simark.ca with LMTP id t+deJe6+l2dWYBwAWB0awg (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:14:22 -0500 Authentication-Results: simark.ca; dkim=pass (1024-bit key; secure) header.d=sourceware.org header.i=@sourceware.org header.a=rsa-sha256 header.s=default header.b=s0PHjixn; dkim-atps=neutral Received: by simark.ca (Postfix, from userid 112) id 877F61E105; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:14:22 -0500 (EST) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 (2022-12-13) on simark.ca X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 required=5.0 tests=ARC_SIGNED,ARC_VALID,BAYES_00, DKIM_SIGNED,DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,MAILING_LIST_MULTI, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no version=4.0.0 Received: from server2.sourceware.org (server2.sourceware.org [8.43.85.97]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (prime256v1) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by simark.ca (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AE881E08E for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 12:14:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from server2.sourceware.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C57385843F for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:14:20 +0000 (GMT) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 sourceware.org C3C57385843F DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sourceware.org; s=default; t=1737998060; bh=kmY9Koo5sMTht9YzCPQXZaUVPNII4LzhW2rE8UnQLmo=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:In-Reply-To:List-Id: List-Unsubscribe:List-Archive:List-Post:List-Help:List-Subscribe: From:Reply-To:From; b=s0PHjixnN2DMroPYESg+ML3IgKBjxMzYE+SS9fEuFqp+an6nJ/z9R/3O4VWv1L7gm oqZgR3vFZTewXwEJEH8JMn583l/YjiWsBoWAizVk6MjbMqwao4PlLhquu1X9puUOsl bM9L6PGll2OeYlHHdJvQQFg59TbqFIyRVvqOppYY= Received: from mail.fsf.org (mail.fsf.org [IPv6:2001:470:142::13]) by sourceware.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6EA803858289 for ; Mon, 27 Jan 2025 16:37:14 +0000 (GMT) DMARC-Filter: OpenDMARC Filter v1.4.2 sourceware.org 6EA803858289 ARC-Filter: OpenARC Filter v1.0.0 sourceware.org 6EA803858289 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1737995834; cv=none; b=xoinh/CCGjaS6WmoH/6ubORwLoZrnxEISX1D5F49B/yGQ/PaTISWcIgSay85gPDXNegXAbmwHzgSP19PbLZ4FXATza6ggL3GWRhWfvEsL6yYRzKmZWp+kkt7JqCKe/5uCKed+hkD4a6oa6OTYXo3Iz0ctmv8GQqpoqm2dlAgWOU= ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=sourceware.org; s=key; t=1737995834; c=relaxed/simple; bh=c9KBxxJeb8IMt3gkiTi+YH5EzDsdzIzQIvHCptDwhAs=; h=DKIM-Signature:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Subject:To:From; b=r3a4sZYkvSfgUGslhciDxiCK9CI6tYKc98elMh4V/mbOyQVqTfnpNCHxgOrmabSf9IWG8m7cmDT1F8oz+t0XzHx37iS36BBtWwg5sL88TORfXFQGiuc2WTPxmpkESBLptPN0aP7GRGBjqYubKTqc1aFU+uwWRVZvr/lqdkZ/j8U= ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; server2.sourceware.org DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 sourceware.org 6EA803858289 Message-ID: <605f81a2-000e-42a3-b5fd-1854e92c56b7@fsf.org> Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2025 17:36:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Icedove Mail Subject: Re: DCO To: GDB Development Cc: Mark Wielaard , Andrew Burgess , Luis Machado , Tom Tromey , Guinevere Larsen , Andrew Pinski , Eli Zaretskii , zoe@fsf.org, Craig Topham , "Bradley M. Kuhn" References: <86538dac-6c3a-4b9e-9de9-3906e645fa4d@redhat.com> <87y16vwbzl.fsf@tromey.com> <74c8b867-f5bb-48f7-9849-11d06e63a3d7@arm.com> <87tta2r5z2.fsf@redhat.com> <1fc456f48c4c6f8aa852c911c6234e219a356434.camel@klomp.org> <87jzatwwl0.fsf@oldenburg3.str.redhat.com> Content-Language: pl-PL, en-US Autocrypt: addr=ksiewicz@fsf.org; keydata= xsFNBGUdL18BEADEO6X3flUUAfwjJiV5/OVTZk1euseSWpYXo/eX2wAxva5ycDSHF5Spdeh4 rEeNnQ3K507hhbXQuhL8lX5uOXFCY1MYWdptEqIfrIF9ES7w+lHp+5Pdh8WTofUXcDCz+UyS LEOIyy+G/c+qCt4zQtLXD2kFAtvrbXyHAdi+e2K8BlCLsZtgu0I6oaOUU2sc/ix6rO4zlzZb 7fVanBHNzGmX0FR28IuteJp5QQcfemzmBKbTywD7kVm95GlOuQ3Up9px2WQA9CD0AwC4S8id MaJ9YSQ0WlFkGghopGsDUQt7Zo3OK4hth/KuHjk2ttawOWwd5hvcc0fvcwmksJbI+F/WG5f0 U7OnYAqSngBaPUdja75WSzyLdAzEIf0vwfjiiDMpeqAQvNjMOS8nfjzcQKmQFx4bnZl9PYb5 D8F0qouKcwanb6w7M8RjQCwmHPZDwRSyKsue4EO+AZmkr7KcmbYmHFr1S082hRqDEhYGkgBb khtWh0+9bk/CTQhPc8UONvS/wsci0EF0eD77RN81uU6JRz4+RfsgM45uesS7lPTA8yrkAHIv ip6nTScnGJw+clYbRRFYpkV75iRqnrTRSjq3CfmZqHN5jA9AiUZKLWLLon0Clz1p5DNBnVaG 5s7sqR0YgkxwfEy8gXMohW3DANWHwJDDSMOKz27lhfn+rsnQIQARAQABzSRLcnp5c3p0b2Yg U2lld2ljeiA8a3NpZXdpY3pAZnNmLm9yZz7CwZUEEwEKAD8WIQRtyeZjNtuViIGrfkMmcSTv /JzYTgUCZR0vXwIbAwUJA8JnAAYLCQgHAwIFFQoJCAsFFgMBAgACHgECF4AACgkQJnEk7/yc 2E6dNg/+Js3Kul9+UNBC3MD4pfZF1zgwz8gM42WZLW0IEuabL9xRLkuKkOPpJdFfpUQe7Rno JqmpzXwAVe7jqbrBT7tFFZd8IoU1cvj6O/5fWNChCsundQpGg1YdgcfCWYGrDMvBeNN9Dwf4 kd8aWRXQL40bwlrzUSSdutwdLq+j/yxLz4dyC2UeJr370aL32yQAMydku+e89YpAlvbCRvmH 2ExrCBIH7vlFWb+6KPXloHRyaWAn8sFssMo94P4Q6CeZkUynJYZg9SmzqhyuHUhTiFFT2l65 4CchqaZ3Pp896FF01AS8vMU0pghMBVbs5qBWTwM7Zgj+3gEDE01W+Bs4EJfCWfKkUdM/q1CU 5hu0/nualFYUs0JOLlknXe/8pFRalcBDUPN12nHzTW3MuljeMlP0AbtXacwJpQTDPhZxHHpI Y7dLh8JXC9BxueX5qdn+fkX2U4BVsHTLjm9D/x44tgrJP2kSGIJwuVAJWS0bPz+vQ2fn8bgP PulfZWNV+CIM+9l3bBLNWaCy9vgc224beVi9UQ8cNUqLjaxQAqJtJBzod4COkVgZVOjXSv/r 59C7DLjRLBwyUD6yOAXBIOqxegRs//EPoSx9w8hrp3t7yk44NCTPgCt/Fx79quNnqPGgoWil TV4km0oCUuppP/OjcHhdhTxgV3ECO93S8b3ehhUr7irOwU0EZR0vXwEQAN/4LRKFsJWbOENa jjGdTdNXQGw1qhU8A14FS+6R6FnZ5BEYPnNMAwvHfeWgDDywGRRACSsv+2HX5BKJ1Jg5hUFC wEyrz+Oe/QwqPon9X6xsq0TVOh4DO4PNhpgKL9ialWNzCq9OiWm5XYuuCZjJ04vVCaFjKGXl MKkznZM1DTDp/EW+Ju3SAmSewwz1N7nh0XputTNchXjiZqiRgNx92oPezl/pfyjzY3JYlyOQ XbPsAJ5Ql5/Wguo6UEYujEDn7Nadt0zG89H3Ouz0so/LbTxjgSKNwsP7UH+kyAxgO+3IpPWq t223n7AfSfz2QYh5cguqdHTZ+UcVjt6/tIjlmavlc4XostEFUYWgPm9+HfhBDCBEDAYkD9Ln 0V3MQXxP2tuzTcIprhHlDM6OXSDiWv6ZFlNVoZqnz/oIM0cfIhCbnSpDwDWQup9f6L8XuLVY NmYsi+UUcaKaH4XSXOT0u0x3hs4YOnizRJQEZHoRfg9zNTwmEGaur0gjqzVii4id3R4+ZM9i slAD0UOGVtdsyMawpr4EY7XT6xopLDQdmn/ThEYFIfUlg+UfZ1vuMkoqD6UBTBCTqKPuoKmD Yhr18usDvmOIqENVl8EakVdUhXt/KnE47IFMAJwTmw41bsvMNpjPrs0szUbrETF8lP/mucNp er/XSDcYfmmol1P7bUYpABEBAAHCwXwEGAEKACYWIQRtyeZjNtuViIGrfkMmcSTv/JzYTgUC ZR0vXwIbDAUJA8JnAAAKCRAmcSTv/JzYTjvLEAC5omruCWluozrO/n8ko6XtIAzYBYFggQHg e7ZnTo4TfH0MJBu6H1okTPEsSVrYykkfQhEXFhJ4g0fbowW+JmP8bMRNPO3AptCP84L3VvoZ HcYcVR3d4z5uu3WAbNiKxvvWJWhUjpkj95Dvm2JAocBnpZuiKVqZV8lot9acVeQZkxQTh+9C J/4F71ifYf+tg/qkyrn9KJCXYwAF2U02M80BPo3nlkM/ekb4P7NDmMF0woRDipSNpsBWAZyq 46+Wrct3yNJY2tXI4cTxrqImKrSC3bhyDfFIYWn5SDx1Mjo2xZ1iYIPxpKms+ZdzLNa91jQL pTcDfgraUMKlOnOSAmDnheoHNvyIQoY8hKF5DPLlMh1bywN8kRrMwKoMHMA0rS42RlsK+hX+ ZUpQXL5JpTz7qY4FyxBMu7ZAPrzpikpjXqSHEzeC3Jb5MC7S+4PKpdiuxVTIWkblp7tQvN5R cz8iMGbYwvmnNfoHG+3ZQj6X4wT54KyiPG24X8v44Ogh4OWOcy4/WBu4wdtKy5sXd3JIweZj 5w1PlnyOuo2n5NudXyrwzM/Tp+d3oowc7KrKX2J9W9dNlsh2fVQmwa+1+FOTHFzSnlDWYaOS jcEQVbdzpCFTB92hPGfp6ITzhwI2aDR9kremra04HzRYlBohM0rLZvWo78sXg6OZp/qQ0Bi6 AA== In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.30 X-BeenThere: gdb@sourceware.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.30 Precedence: list List-Id: Gdb mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , From: Krzysztof Siewicz via Gdb Reply-To: Krzysztof Siewicz Errors-To: gdb-bounces~public-inbox=simark.ca@sourceware.org Sender: "Gdb" Hello, Thank you Mark for CCing the FSF on that thread. I'm the FSF's licensing and compliance manager and let me please also add Craig Topham, FSF's copyright and licensing associate so that our complete Licensing Team can participate in the discussion. We are not on this list and it took us some time to catch up with your conversation. We at the FSF have once promised to accept DCOs and to draft variant(s) of theDCO that would best serve the needs of the GNU project. So we are happy that this discussion takes place and that so many people communicate their needs and have informed opinions about ways for having the needs met. Since the last Cauldron, we have been meaning to look at the DCO again, and we're happy to work with people at GDB to help implement something directly. I hope it is OK for you if I present the FSF's position and rationale towards copyright assignments, and what guides us when considering DCOs. DCOs sound like a great tool for cutting bureaucratic overhead in a project, but it comes at a cost that should be well understood and risks that should be managed. For the time being, copyright assignments bring a lot of certainty and security, but with an overhead, so perhaps we should focus on minimizing the overhead instead of dropping assignments altogether. I explain in detail below why: The FSF's copyright handling policy is designedwithenforcement of the GNU GPLvia copyright actionsin mind. Other goals are: to give FSF explicit permission to include the material in a GNU package, to make it possible to add additional permission to specific pieces of code, and to protect the community from employers' surprise claims (including patent claims). The FSF asks contributors for two kinds of legal papers: copyright assignments, and employer copyright disclaimers. Sometimes, for small parts of programs we also accept placing them in the public domain or giving the FSF an unlimited perpetual nonexclusive license. Employer disclaimers are important, including for effective GPL enforcement. If we accepted a copyright assignment but it turned out that copyrights had been actually held by the employer, the copyright assignment would not transfer any rights to the FSF. The employer disclaimer used by the FSF also addressesthe employer's patents and interface copyrights that might cover the contributor's code. From what we know, projects collecting DCOs do not require separate employer disclaimers, but this looks less burdensome for developers only at first glance. AsBradley noted in his post, the Linux DCO text simply shifts all the burden for these important tasks onto the individual developer. The developer must personallymake sure that the employer won't claim copyrights or patents on the code. Also, DCOs are issued by employees, not employers. So even if a DCO includes a statement of the employee that no employer can claim rights on the code, it is hardly equivalent to such a statement made directly by the employer. Whatever the contributor agreed with the employer might be not enforceable by the project or users, and they are definitely more legally secure if the employer issues a disclaimer towards the project and its users directly. Copyright assignment by its nature includes a transfer of standing to bring copyright claims undera license and to add additional permissions. We believe that GPL enforcement via copyright is very important for the future of software freedom. Thus, the FSF is and will remain committed to holding copyrights to preserve software freedom. This is not guaranteed for projects where copyrights are assigned toorganizations with no commitment to uphold the GPL for the community, e.g. to for-profit employers of the developers, that could as well be incentivized to relicense the code under a nonfree license. I hope this is helpful. This is not legal advice as the FSF cannot give legal advice, but it is intended to clarify our policy approach. We are open to hearing any ideas for improving our copyright handling policy. FSF is also hosting a panel at FOSDEM in the Legal and Policy DevRoom about some of these issues in a few weeks and I welcome those interested to find us there H.1301 (Cornil) on Saturday at 12:30: https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-5376-managing-copyrights-in-free-software-projects-discussion-panel-with-gnu-maintainers/ If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact us. Best regards, -- Krzysztof Siewicz | Licensing and Compliance Manager, Free Software Foundation GPG Key: 6DC9 E663 36DB 9588 81AB 7E43 2671 24EF FC9C D84E https://fsf.org We moved! The FSF changed address, find us at:https://www.fsf.org/about/contact Free software is important for a free society! Build a better world with us by matching the average donation of USD $46.22 https://donate.fsf.org Give the gift of an FSF associate membership: https://my.fsf.org/gift-a-membership Follow the FSF on Mastodon:https://hostux.social/@fsf Sign up for the FSF's newsletter:https://www.fsf.org/fss US government employee? Use CFC charity code 63210 to support us through the Combined Federal Campaign.https://cfcgiving.opm.gov/