From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4569 invoked by alias); 13 Feb 2015 11:09:26 -0000 Mailing-List: contact gdb-help@sourceware.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Subscribe: List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: , Sender: gdb-owner@sourceware.org Received: (qmail 4556 invoked by uid 89); 13 Feb 2015 11:09:25 -0000 Authentication-Results: sourceware.org; auth=none X-Virus-Found: No X-Spam-SWARE-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.3.2 X-HELO: rock.gnat.com Received: from rock.gnat.com (HELO rock.gnat.com) (205.232.38.15) by sourceware.org (qpsmtpd/0.93/v0.84-503-g423c35a) with (AES256-SHA encrypted) ESMTPS; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:09:24 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by filtered-rock.gnat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C62D2EA9 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:09:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from rock.gnat.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (rock.gnat.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 30t+x5+DgSmm for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:09:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from joel.gnat.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by rock.gnat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C548D2EA8 for ; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 06:09:21 -0500 (EST) Received: by joel.gnat.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8F90740EAD; Fri, 13 Feb 2015 15:09:19 +0400 (RET) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2015 11:09:00 -0000 From: Joel Brobecker To: gdb@sourceware.org Subject: fwd: is LLDB a threat to GDB's success? #999 Message-ID: <20150213110919.GN5709@adacore.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-SW-Source: 2015-02/txt/msg00022.txt.bz2 Hello, RMS started a private discussion yesterday with the GNU Maintainers of the GDB project about LLDB, and he was asking whether LLDB is a thread to GDB's success. I found Pedro Alves' answer very interesting. BTW, Pedro is an extremely competent engineer working for RedHat from Portugal, I believe. Pedro allowed me to share his answer with you. Let's try not to let it out of AdaCore, though. Although I don't think Pedro would mind, until he releases his message in public, I don't want us to be the one doing that... Note the reference to Google and Android... > I've been following their development list for a while, and from what > I see, most of the serious contributions come from developers > employed to work on it. Most of the current development comes out > or either Apple or Google. AFAICS, Apple has a handful of contributors > working on it (a couple used to be GDB developers a long time ago), and > since recently, Google seems to have increased its investment in LLDB, > from one developer to a whole team working on it full time. AFAICS, > Google is driving the ports to GNU/Linux, Android and Windows too. I'd bet > that their plans are to make LLDB the default debugger engine in whatever > integrated development environment GUI they support to debug Android, but > that's just a guess. > > As to why we're seeing growing investment from companies other than > Apple, in addition to the reasons you've already mentioned, I'd > also say: > > - Good C++ support. > > This stems from modularity. lldb reuses llvm/clang (the C/C++ compiler > frontend) for expression evaluation/parsing, thus it has excellent > C++ support. GDB has its own built in C++ expression parser, which > is poor. GNU of course already has excellent parsers inside GCC/G++, > but unfortunately, for years GCC did not really welcome modularity > and reuse, and that now bites back, hard. As the C++ world shifts > more and more to C++11/C++14, the more GDB is bitten by this, > as it doesn't understand basic new features that have been added > to the language. LLDB gains support for such new features for > free whenever clang gains support for the same. > > - It's natural to invest in lldb if you've already investing in > clang/llvm, given a lot of of components are reused in the projects. > IOW, lldb becomes a thread to gdb as consequence of clang/llvm > becoming a thread to gcc. > > - Like it or not: license. Assigned to brobecker, prio D. Copy to gnatgcc, pelt Perhaps worth sharing with PTD as well? PELT? -- Joel